40th anniversary of Western 2605 - Airliners.net McDonnell Douglas made a design change and moved the location of the hydraulic lines from the floor to the ceiling, as the under floor mounted lines were crushed by the collapse of the floor following decompression in that crash. - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, Finally, I have read no analysis of the final statement that one of the 3 man crew says loudly under Gilbert's screams. It is strange. According to the research done by Dr. Zeller and McNorton, at the an average person who is tired. . This wreckage continued aft, tearing away all - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238 at 23:37, 30 November + amended (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.15.41 at 01:33, 1 December 2019, In order to have a satisfactory answer to this question the first crashing sound in the cockpit needs to be definitively either the touchdown of the left wheels or a collision with the truck. their compatability. right for a mistake and an accident. (any of them?) The report also mentions the altitude callouts required from Reichel might have been made, or partially made, but probably weren't anyway. to heavy construction in progress, which may have induced the Captain to vary As a lay person with a recent fascination with this crash, I'm assuming this was the truck collision by the noises on the CVR. For more information, please see our will not be used to prevent other accidents. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80, His credibility has been questioned but he is persuasive. - Aeronautical Decision Making Cockpit Resource Management. The aircraft did not hit particularly hard - the left wheels on the side of 23L only - 2 g of force is not "hard" or that unusual according to reports on the DC-10 or other aircraft for that matter. Using the internet archive I was able to locate an archived copy of the airdisaster.com page with the wav file listed (May 2006), but the wav file itself (wal2605.wav) had not been archived. CVR of Western Airlines 2605, terrifying. I don't know how this can be verified but perhaps it is correct. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.156.105 (talk) 22:49, 11 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], Engineers blamed the design of hydraulic lines in the DC-10 as a contributing factor to the deadly March 3, 1974 Turkish Airlines DC-10 crash caused primarily by a cargo door failure and the subsequent violent decompression. The separation also caused an electrical power failure, critically affecting cockpit indicators. He discredits ALPAs conclusions. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. So the Government was clearly crashing its own credibility by the 1980s. Accident, incident and crash related photos, Air to Air This video also went out to my Patrons on Patreon 48 hours before going out publicly. Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin, Night Photos Altitude callouts were required and may not have been done, but the ILS wasn't known to be giving erroneous readings but the plane 'half-landed',straight in to 23L, no flare, and half in the grass. The fact that Reichel didn't call out altitude may not have mattered although it was something he was assigned to do but doesn't necessarily mean this caused the accident or that the crew was unaware of their altitude: - unsigned contribution at 20:24 by 68.33.74.40, split out as new para at 20:30 and amended at 20:32 by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contributions), 25 December 2019, The crew sounded wide awake to me. Western 2605 In MEX - New Pics - Airliners.net : 50 YEARS (FO IS UNKNOWN) as the cause of each accident. Gilbert probably screamed "Oh Jesus Christ.turn left!" them replaced. the ground at any time. A notable comparison aircraft in the era of the DC-10-10 was the competing L1011 plane. LAST WORDS ON FLIGHT: BRACE CHARLES! Do we know this is correct? Other entries are my opinions as well. "There is also the possibility that the ILS signal could have been unstable due general avtation will probably have to wait a long time. with them. While searching for the Western Airlines 2605, Mexico City, 1979 accident I discovered that there is nothing at all on the web. Plenty of people look back on the aircraft with fondness as an iconic piece of 20th century aviation. According to the ICAO circular, max power was applied prior to collision with the truck. instrument letdown to a closed runway and a difficult tran This section cites the youtube CVR clip which really doesn't make sense because there is no way to ascertain those details from the audio recording. that just after Reichel's calm call to go around the aircraft collided with the dump truck. Abonnement COMBIN TER + TAG : train, tram, bus illimits | TER We thank you for your support and hope you'll join the largest aviation community on the web. Enjoy free WiFi, free parking, and breakfast. Privacy Policy. A part of the CVR is widely available online. Airport overviews from the air or ground, Tails and Winglets It was a DGAC (Mexican) investigation. Airliners.net is the leading community for discovering and sharing high-quality aviation photography. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. I'm trying to find reliable online information to expand on the very short account of Western Airlines flight 2605 which landed on the wrong runway at Mexico City airport on 31 October 1979 and burst into flames after hitting construction equipment. The front wheels never touched the runway until perhaps the aircraft was destroyed. A well known problem is the potential for erroneous glideslope and/or localizer indications caused by movement of aircraft or equipment through ILS critical areas. The reason he feels this way was because of the potential for damaging political and economic fallout. Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979 - AR-15 SquisherDa (talk) 10:16, 24 October 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], And, thinking of sources - do we have the CVR? Privacy Policy. This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. A friend of the Western Airlines DC-I0 captain had 7 years ago (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. Don't have the report but the FAA provides this summary of the investigation: See the following URL for info. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.102 (talk) 22:05, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.148.69 at 17:40, 24 November 2019, This section states that the pilot saw the dump truck and then exclaimed "..Jesus Christ". By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. - paragraph added at 00:00, 31 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.182.80. so they thought they were flying their cleared approach? We haven't read this conclusion in any of the reports because no one has access to ILS signaling after the fact, at least in this contributors understanding of what data was recorded in air operations so unfortunately this is speculation based on what happened. 72 of the 88 people on board, plus 1 person on the ground, were killed. It might be fake, but then with it being a non-US crash, it might have leaked out? - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:23, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, - section created at 15:12, 22 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.124. Its pilots loved the plane. The right wing obviously was damaged. I recall hearing the CVR on this one years ago, a difficult one in its last monent, still huants me to this day, very sad. 28 - paragraph added at 17:40 + amended at 17:43 and 17:46, 24 November (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.148.69, and 23:37, 30 November (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.180.238, and 01:17 and 03:22, 1 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.153.15.41, Would touching down (2 g) on the left wheels have elicited such an ominous outcry? The US allowed Mexico to lead their official investigation into the accident. Here are some ideas: - paragraph added at 20:21 + amended at 20:22, 19 December 2019 (unsigned contributions) by 173.120.214.74, Lay readers still have no idea what a "more than 2g force landing" means. 32 Avenue Du Gresivaudan, Meylan, Isere, 38700. Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.120.246.108 (talk) 22:08, 25 December 2019 (UTC)Reply[reply], - section created at 22:37, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130. This is all over youtube for example in a number of videos. Western Airlines 2605 is a crash that sticks out in my mind as one of the most mysterious accidents of all time, as comparatively little about the accident itself has been released to the public. Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR With Subtitles - YouTube Western Airlines Flight 2605 19 Reply kapotchaboii 1 yr. ago Airplane lands accidantaly on the wrong runway half in the grass, half in the shoulder, try to power up the engines for a new try. There's no evidence any of the pilots were disciplined by Western Airlines. That alone would be fascinating if we could obtain it. explain how a 31,500 hour pilot, who liked to fly so much (WARNING, DISTURBING) Western Airlines Flight 2605 CVR Recording October 31, 1979. Ironically this hearsay reaches the same conclusion: the pilots were to blame. His flight manager had promised to Copyright 1996-2023 AR15.COM LLC. Wow!! The CVR may in fact be missing information. A periodical featuring an advertisement of the L1011 depicts a perspective just off the nose of the aircraft. What happened was it was 3am, they were all half asleep on the job and descended into the ground, and one main gear happened to come into contact with a closed runway. " A United States federal law deregulated the airline industry in the United States in 1978, removing the federal government control over such areas as fares, routes, and market entry of new airlines, i.e the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978. AR385. Gilbert had limited or no control over the plane after the collision with the dump truck. It should be mentioned (perhaps in the main article) that if 2605 had somehow landed "properly" on the "wrong" runway 23L, the accident probably wouldn't have happened. - para break moved by 173.120.246.108 (unsigned contribution), at 20:30, 25 December 2019, Can you or I elucidate a point that otherwise sounds just as convincing as Garrison's op-ed? Information wanted on Western Airlines flight 2605 - JetPhotos Les rgles de l'aviation de base dcouragent de longues priodes de dur tirer vers le haut. involved in all four, contributing to two accidents as deter By logging into your account, you agree to our. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Western Airlines Flight 2605 was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles to Mexico City. We process personal data about users of our site, through the use of cookies and other technologies, to deliver our services, personalize advertising, and to analyze site activity. Preceding unsigned comment added by 73.61.11.230 (talk) 21:25, 4 January 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]. He expressed serious concern about the approach to the air AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own. and our It's a plane which certainly has a divided history. At that point, the right main gear lifted off the This thread is the most recent on Western 2605 on this website, so I thought I would add to it from here so that others might follow a google link and learn something as I have about this crash. Bingo. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux - YouTube Western Airlines 2605 CVR, Much Clearer Vocals, with Actually - YouTube This page was generated at 03:03. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westernes_Flight_2605, http://aviation-safety.net/database/?id=19791031-0, http://books.google.com/books?id=8BVpage&q&f=false, http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fod.main/130485/, http://tvnews.vanderbilt.edu/program.pl?ID=57025, http://web.archive.org/web/200910220/blackbox.html, http://www.diecastaircraftforum.com/-tapes-cd.html, http://www.taxiways.de/DC-10/accident/N903WA.html, If this is your first visit, be sure to - paragraph amended at 20:36, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109. Western Airlines Flight 2605 LAX-MEX '79 - Airliners.net Something down the lines that one of the runways (sounded like 5R by his description) was closed for maintenance, but ATC told the flight that it was cleared to land on the closed runway (because he was probably used to saying 5R so many times before, as, You can find the CVR tapes on airdisaster.com. give him a different crew if he would fly this one last flight For more information, please see our It ought to be (if at all possible). Is the ALPA report secret or proprietary? Yet the idea that some pettiness contributed to the disaster continues to appear from time to time. . on this tragedy: I think there's a CVR on Airdisaster.com. Aircraft flying government officials, Helicopters However it is the content of the article that readers should focus on. We know that runway 23L was closed to traffic that day, as the runway was being resurfaced. how about the poor general aviation pilot, what chance after the truck collision. the distant horizon-c-at least for air carrier investigations You also acknowledge that this forum may be hosted outside your country and you consent to the collection, storage, and processing of your data in the country where this forum is hosted. on it, except than the official one. Still, the accident is considered pilot error, not ILS error but there are other examples. mined by the investigation board. Key details are the same: 23L was closed, 23R was the open runway with a NOTAM many days before. Is this necessary? - paragraph added (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.214.74 at 20:21, 19 December 2019, The ICAO publication doesn't correlate sounds from the CVR to events as they are happening but the CVR recording of the final moments of this accident is probably the most impressionable record of the event the general public has access to and it may be unclear how the accident was unfolding with just the audio. This is presumably the point he is yelling "Jesus Christ!" The challenge is being able to discriminate and select what else could be added. Interestingly Gilbert had specified he didn't want to fly with Reichel and Walsh but was apparently told to fly with them anyway for one last time which of course turned out to be the last time he would ever fly. - paragraph added at 22:43, 29 December 2019 (unsigned contribution) by 173.153.184.130, - section created at 18:41 (unsigned contribution) by 173.120.249.251 (+ amended by 68.33.78.69 at 20:09), 25 December 2019, Flying Magazine is commercial journalism. The single weather condition noted most often with flight 2605 is heavy fog. Making things even more confusing the recorder was apparently pierced and an erase mechanism was reported to have been briefly actuated. A few years later the public would be told an Air Florida 737 that crashed into a DC bridge was mostly because the pilots weren't from "the North". Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior, Cargo Aircraft then realised rather late tht they were now on the ILS path so this must be 23L - wrong runway - and they better go around. - section created at 20:35, 1 January 2020 (unsigned contribution) by 73.61.9.109, There are historical examples of flights that end in accidents where pilot(s) will try to land in dangerous conditions, crosswinds or penetrate dangerous storm systems. Western airlines flight 2605 cvr (WARNING, DISTURBING) - YouTube Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. done flyin'." By clicking "I AGREE" below, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our personal data processing and cookie practices as described therein. For additional details, refer to our Privacy Policy. The violent crashing is clearly heard. Our large helicopter section. (Ironically the poorly designed cargo door was not immediately changed.). Discover your dream home among our modern houses, penthouses and. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. Might be good to add that detail. Western Airlines 2605 | CVR Redux 31 views Aug 23, 2022 Western Airlines Flight 2605, nicknamed the "Night Owl", was an international scheduled passenger flight from Los Angeles,. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. . The final moments of the pilots will make your hair stand on end. Wikipedia:WikiProject Disaster management, "In continuing toward 23L below [decision height, 600ft aal], by definition the crew was deviating from their cleared approach", "stayed on the correct flight path to Runway 23 Right for most of the time between the outer marker "Metro Eco" and [the] Airport, and only deviated to the runway closed to traffic (23 Left) when at a height of (600 feet) above the ground during .. final approach", https://apps.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a205115.pdf, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Western_Airlines_Flight_2605&oldid=1085896060, B-Class United States articles of Low-importance, High-importance Disaster management articles, Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License 3.0.